A conversation with Michael R. Ziglar, excerpted from We Have Just Begun to Not Fight, An Oral History of Conscientious Objectors in Civilian Public Service During World War II, by Heather Frazer and John O’Sullivan ©1996:

You base your pacifism on the Sermon on the Mount.  Is that correct?

Well, “Thou shalt not kill” comes first, then the Crucifixion.  I mean, they come and get you and crucify you and take you.  That’s all.  Just two things.

What do you say to people who attack your position as being too idealistic?

I go back to when I was talking to this general of the Marines.  Get the churches to agree that they won’t kill each other.  Just that simple.  To pin it down, I went to the one pope, and I said, “You fight against abortion and birth control, buy you get up to 18 or 19 and it’s all right to kill people.  How you get that now?”  I went to the head Lutheran man, Franklin Fry.  I said, “You have Lutherans in America, you have Lutherans in Germany, enough to sway the life of both nations, and you killed each other.  How did you justify that and you fight against abortion and birth control and things like that?  How do you justify that?”  And the pope and Franklin Frye answered exactly the same way.  Either one of those two organizations could have prevented two world wars if the Catholics wouldn’t have killed Catholics.  I got that from a Marine general, I didn’t get that out of the bible, except that “Thou shalt not kill.”


1 Comment

  1. … this makes me think of Morpheus and his way of explaining what the Matrix is to Neo…


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